Email is over 50 years old.
IRC is in its mid-30s.
XMPP is in its 20s.
What are some closed/centralised tools like that that are as old and still in use?

Was thinking of all the centralised chat systems that I've seen die, and wondered if such systems ever have the same kind of longevity.

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Which one will be the first to die? ☠️

@owl Noooot email. And people always /say/ Matrix Is Going To Die (And You Should Use XMPP Instead) but like, I doubt it will 'cause it's decentralized.

@katnjiapus @owl That assumes either of them will die in any sort of reasonable timeframe!

But I'm not here to argue against the XMPP Is Always Better Than Matrix And You Should Use It people. >,,< I don't have the spoons for that.

@IceWolf @owl I was more thinking that people are habitual, and XMPP has been around longer; wasn't a observation of quality of either :blobCatUwU:

Neither will go away anytime soon, me thinks.

@katnjiapus @owl Oh okay! That's good then. :pixel_heart_teal:

There seems to be a brigade of people out there going effectively "Matrix is awful in every way and XMPP is fantastic and has no flaws! You should use it instead of Matrix!" so I kinda assumed you were doin' that.

@IceWolf @owl Nah. I don't care much for protocol flame wars :angery:

@sidd_harth0_5h4h @owl

I refuse to believe this because it would be too annoying for me personally.

@celesteh @owl email is already a part of financial institutions & governments, while nothing else is

@celesteh @owl signal will die because crypto will mean they’ll get banned

@sidd_harth0_5h4h @owl

Adding a fucking crypto coin bullshit widget I can't opt out of is not going to help their longevity.

However, it's what Zuck uses to chat.

@sidd_harth0_5h4h @owl

Given the sheer amount of email my job generates, I'm sure the platform will live forever, but my feelings will be mixed if it doesn't.

@sidd_harth0_5h4h @celesteh @owl the french and german governments started using matrix, though?

@malte @celesteh @owl When they do that with citizens, that's when i consider it a real use

@owl it's gotta be either signal or telegram. Depends on what the organizations behind them are gonna do

@schratze
Telegram has apparently been funded by rich daddy up until now:
telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-you
But now they need to figure out how to monetize their platform.

@owl @schratze regarding "apparently": wasn't it all very public from the beginning? Like that it was his way of giving back to society.
Also he became rich by creating a social network in Russia, and government forcibly took that company away from him (and basically exiled him from the country) because he refused to provide KGB with the information about opposition activists.

@schratze @IngaLovinde I have no idea. :)
I don't know anything about them except that they don't do E2EE, hence the apparently.
It's the official website so it wasn't intended to come across as a revelation or anything.

@owl @schratze I don't know what it looked like for the rest of the world, but in Russia "it's made by Durov" was a significant selling point at the beginning...

@owl Signal is very ripe for dying atm with their crypto shenanigans.

@owl only one of those have decided to get into cryptocurrencies

@pthenq1 That's cool :D
I thought it had shut down

@owl @uniporn
I’d vote for XMPP.

Unfortunately, E-Mail will survive the IPv6-Shortage in 2099 when we switch to an intergalactic address space.

@owl I feel like Signals market thingie is that they are super secure private and what not. But Jami seems to be beating them in that regard. So signal doesn't really have a niche. While Email is for business. Telegram for normal people. Matrix for bridges.

@owl I went telegram on this, though I think signal isn't exactly far behind in it's EOL. Both probably need to die in a fire, both have similar (though definitely different) privacy issues, that should make people weary, but their user base in both circumstances is invested (and privacy, or lack there of, is apparently is not a driving factor).

Email will likely never die (it does improve, and probably will for the entirety of my lifetime at least).

Matrix is only getting started, it's a newcomer to the game, and while used primarily for chats currently, adaptable to any number of applications not just chat (there is even a microblog POC server out there now). I suspect it's here for the long haul, if you look at all the projects playing with it now.

@owl
I voted Telegram would die first, I want to change my vote to Signal.

The crypto move is shitty enough, but implying that you will use the devices of random users to hack goverment systems? Oof...

signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vul

If I had reason to believe I was going to cross a border, or otherwise have a bigger then zero expectation of invasive device checks, I would probably delete signal beforehand.

Imagine living under a opressive regime and reading that bragpost by Moxie...

@kingannoy Yeah.
Initially I found the post funny, then I got to the end, and I really wouldn't want to be a part of that little game without knowledge or consent.

I also voted Telegram because Signal at least still has E2EE that works, but it's sad that these are the two popular options (at least in my little bubble) :\

@owl
It's a interesting post and it took me a quite a while too. Especially to parse that last paragraph and to reach the obvious conclusion to what they are saying.

It's very wink-wink nudge-nudge, but the consequences could literally cost someone their life. Even if they are not serious about doing that, how are users supposed to know that? And still be able to trust you?

@owl
The only somewhat acceptable reason I can think of for this, and this would be some 5D chess type stuff. Is that someone allready exploited this vulnerability, and they are trying to take the blame for that persons actions.

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